Maybe we'll see.
Keep it on topic, please.
Aronian's argued in an interview that computers have made playing chess competitively a lot harder because one needs to put in exponentially more more effort trying to find a variation that works out, isn't immediately refuted by the computers, and a move that is actually good that the computers initially disagree with. This is what Chuchelov excels at, which explains Caruana's arsenal of magic tricks in the opening.
So no, 2700+ players don't ever play against engines for training - there's very little to be gained from that. There's everything to be gained for using them for analysis, speeding up the process considerably. That is ultimately the intended prime function of computer engines today - speediness of calculation, not actually thinking for you.
Aronian's argued in an interview that computers have made playing chess competitively a lot harder because one needs to put in exponentially more more effort trying to find a variation that works out, isn't immediately refuted by the computers, and a move that is actually good that the computers initially disagree with. This is what Chuchelov excels at, which explains Caruana's arsenal of magic tricks in the opening.
So no, 2700+ players don't ever play against engines for training - there's very little to be gained from that. There's everything to be gained for using them for analysis, speeding up the process considerably. That is ultimately the intended prime function of computer engines today - speediness of calculation, not actually thinking for you.
I agree with AdmiralA, I don't think there is a signle player above 2650 that actually plays against the computer. But all of them do use engines to prepare their openings, and against specific players, even amateurs do that to some extent. In case of the very top players a good chunck of the preparation is done by seconds, so it is palusible that Magnus doesn't have to use the computer directly that much himself.
I think there are a few things being mixed up.
Opening theory development coupled with computers is certainly increasing exponentially the amount of knowledge a player has to possess in order to not get a bad position out of the opening. At a very high level of play, sometimes a good opening advantage is detrimental to the outcome of the game. This is one way in which people say the engines are helping to kill chess, or at least make it more and more stale.
One other claim is the possibility technology advancing so much that computers will solve chess. Like when people say "Why would you invest time in a game which will likely be solved in [insert subjective number] years or so?". This I think is very improbable, but I am no expert in quantum computing, it all sounds like black magic to me.
In any case I think chess960, or Fischer Random Chess, is a good solution to keep the chess between humans alive.
I think there are a few things being mixed up.
Opening theory development coupled with computers is certainly increasing exponentially the amount of knowledge a player has to possess in order to not get a bad position out of the opening. At a very high level of play, sometimes a good opening advantage is detrimental to the outcome of the game. This is one way in which people say the engines are helping to kill chess, or at least make it more and more stale.
One other claim is the possibility technology advancing so much that computers will solve chess. Like when people say "Why would you invest time in a game which will likely be solved in [insert subjective number] years or so?". This I think is very improbable, but I am no expert in quantum computing, it all sounds like black magic to me.
In any case I think chess960, or Fischer Random Chess, is a good solution to keep the chess between humans alive.
It really makes me scratch my head when I hear so much talk about how chess might die/be dead because computers have solved/are about to 'solve it'. And I'm surprised how often I've heard this notion kicked about. What what what what what does that have to do with anyone but the highest level players which comprise only ~ 0.1 % of total chess players? To the average joe, far more theory had already been worked out than they will ever learn when the only computer being used was the abacus. It would be like if I only had $500 000 and a house cost $1 000 000. It wouldn't change ANYTHING for me if the price was increased to $2 000 000 or $5 000 000 or $50000000000.
They can invent super computers or quantum computers or borg computers, and it's going to make exactly zero difference to the average real person playing chess using only their own abilities. As someone else pointed out, chess is a clash of two wills and that has not changed. Just as it's always been, you can put as much or as little work into training and memorizing as you wish. It's your choice, but there is one important thing that has changed. Now wherever you are, with the internet you can always find someone in a matter of seconds, right at your own level to have a balanced game with. Not to mention the massive amount of online support you can get and the social aspect of it that was discussed in this thread that has such appeal. Chess might not be at the peak of its popularity right now, but it's never been more alive.
They can invent super computers or quantum computers or borg computers, and it's going to make exactly zero difference to the average real person playing chess using only their own abilities. As someone else pointed out, chess is a clash of two wills and that has not changed. Just as it's always been, you can put as much or as little work into training and memorizing as you wish. It's your choice, but there is one important thing that has changed. Now wherever you are, with the internet you can always find someone in a matter of seconds, right at your own level to have a balanced game with. Not to mention the massive amount of online support you can get and the social aspect of it that was discussed in this thread that has such appeal. Chess might not be at the peak of its popularity right now, but it's never been more alive.
chess is dead and boring ever since computers became popular; this is why i mainly play bullet and 960 games nowadays
You play bullet and 960....on a computer. ;)
dah...
@AdmiralA
I didn't want to comment on such an old post, but you had the "courtesy" of directing me right to it in that last topic in an attempt to berate me. Yes, of course the first thing you thought of was that I was marauding as some stronger player on some other site.
In nowhere in my previous post did I say you were insulting me. In fact it was not directed to you, but to CautiousKamikaze. But of course YOUR entirely confrontational attitude instantly caused you to attack me. Forgive me if I was a little angry that someone called me a troll immediately after your post, but granted how often you've been on my ass, my outrage is not unwarranted even if it was directed at you.
I didn't want to comment on such an old post, but you had the "courtesy" of directing me right to it in that last topic in an attempt to berate me. Yes, of course the first thing you thought of was that I was marauding as some stronger player on some other site.
In nowhere in my previous post did I say you were insulting me. In fact it was not directed to you, but to CautiousKamikaze. But of course YOUR entirely confrontational attitude instantly caused you to attack me. Forgive me if I was a little angry that someone called me a troll immediately after your post, but granted how often you've been on my ass, my outrage is not unwarranted even if it was directed at you.
Your outrage is entirely out of control if it leads you to spam topics with relentless doubleposting and carrying shit over across topics. I'm not the only person with whom you have some pointless vendetta, and I'm having a hard time finding those you identify with except those with severe behavioural issues. You posted in this topic here to call me out *because the other one was closed.* The fact that it was closed did not deter you in the slightest from actually putting an end to that discussion.
Your temper, outrage, confrontational stance, attitude, stick up your arse - whatever you'd want to call it - needs to be in check, particularly so if you posted a topic earlier on proclaiming that you angrily ragequit chess for two weeks just because of insults. If you're letting such things get to you when you can just uncheck the box to shut out the chat or block such users, and are otherwise *compelled* to respond to the extent that you go cross-topic just to satisfy your own itching compulsion to get the last word in, then you have personal issues to resolve.
You have an issue with me or others? Fine. But if your issues carry over to be disruptive to the forum at large by negatively bringing down the experience for everyone, there's going to be very few who'll stand for it, and I'm not one of them.
Your temper, outrage, confrontational stance, attitude, stick up your arse - whatever you'd want to call it - needs to be in check, particularly so if you posted a topic earlier on proclaiming that you angrily ragequit chess for two weeks just because of insults. If you're letting such things get to you when you can just uncheck the box to shut out the chat or block such users, and are otherwise *compelled* to respond to the extent that you go cross-topic just to satisfy your own itching compulsion to get the last word in, then you have personal issues to resolve.
You have an issue with me or others? Fine. But if your issues carry over to be disruptive to the forum at large by negatively bringing down the experience for everyone, there's going to be very few who'll stand for it, and I'm not one of them.
I find this back and forth between AdmiralA and RainOfMeteors quite amusing. Just chill the f*** out guys, this is online chess, just calm your titties and get back to enjoying the gift that Thibault and the lichess developers have bestowed upon us all. AdmiralA, I am a a bit disappointed in you because, as the number 1 ranked classical player, you should be a role model and not engage in such bull s***.
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